Doug Bower interviewed in 2001
Bower is interviewed for the documentary, Circlespeak, which was released on DVD in 2005, with the footage taken back in 2001. There was a filmed interview with Bower, a short sequence being compiled from his soundbytes. A much longer piece of footage was also included, on the DVD bonus disc – see below for the transcript.
Bower is seated next to John Lundberg who also speaks, but I have not transcribed Lundberg’s comments. Edits are indicated by horizontal lines between the paragraphs. We only get some very short quotes, but they are not generally included in the longer piece, so we detail them first. All dialogue is Bower’s unless stated:
“There were no circles anywhere in existence before 1978 [Lundberg, incidentally, does not react to this – he’s looking at the ground, motionless] when we put the first one down.”
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“We wanted them [onlookers] to think a UFO had landed in the night.”
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“We used to sign them in the end, look, D&D: Doug and Dave [shows a photograph of his ‘insectogram’ formation from September 1991, which entrapped Pat Delgado, and points to the ‘signature’].”
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On-screen we see Bower with his stomper board. “That’s the one we started with, 1978, that stick.”
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“Unfortunately, we did this for two years without any notice being taken of it at all. It wasn’t only the fun we got out of making them, it was the fun that we got of winding people up.”
===============
“Now, the first hoaxing started, from other groups… [Lundberg laughs and takes over the conversation. Suggests he’s taken Bower’s limelight, and Bower also laughs], Well, we had the limelight, I know, but, er, Dave got despondent [over copycat hoaxing], he says, ‘no, it’s no good us carrying on, he says, there’s other people doing them’. I says, ‘You carry on!’ [hoaxing with me], because, I was so obsessed with it all, we just had to carry on.”
===============
Voiceover leads us to the 1991 confession…
“The Today newspaper was the paper that I took [read] at that time. We rang up there, and erm, I said, ‘What’s the story of the crop circle phenomenon worth?’.”
Second sequence: Lengthy interview, included as one of the ‘extra’ bonus items.
This is a much longer piece of film with Bower talking at length. Again, I have not transcribed Lundberg’s comments, or detailed occasional brief exchanges between the two, but Bower’s statements below are often separated by remarks from Lundberg, and were not filmed in a continuous, uninterrupted flow. Edits are indicated by horizontal lines between the paragraphs.
==============
“Well, I remember one evening, Dave and I went out to look at the circle. This was at, erm, Warminster. To look at a circle that we’d done a couple of nights before. And, erm, when we got to the viewing place, to have a look at it, lo and behold, there was another circle by the side of ours. Of course, Dave got very despondent then. He says, ‘it’s no good carrying on, he says, there’s other people doing them.’ That was the first hint that we had, that there was other people doing them.”
===============
“But the other thing that surprises me is the effect that it’s had on people. Erm, I mean, it all started out over a pint of beer and a bit of a laugh. That’s all it was! That was all we did it [for] for 14 years, just for a laugh. And, erm, this is what’s become of it. It’s got world-wide.
“The other thing I’d like to str[ess], I’ve been stressing this point [in] every interview that I’ve done. The reason that there are circles in other parts of the world is because we used to meet these people from different parts of the world, up near Winchester, looking at what we’d done. And they would turn round to me, the men from Germany, America, Canada, France, all those people would say to us, ‘When we get home from this holiday, we’re gonna have a go at this.’ And that’s why you’ve got them in all different parts of the world.
[At this point Bower is speaking clearly, firmly, with conviction. Lundberg does not react in any way] “There were no circles anywhere in existence before 1978, when we put the first one down. There’s archaeological aerial photographs [which have] been examined, thousands of them, prior to, er, 1978, and not one single circle has ever been spotted from the air.”
===============
“To be quite honest with you, I thought to myself, once we’d start putting the corridors in, and the other bits and pieces [ie, making pictograms with elaborate features], I didn’t like that. We’re going away from what we originally started. We [originally] wanted people to believe – flying saucers are circular, our circles were circular – and all we wanted them to believe [was] that something landed during the night, and that was that. But once we started [to] put all these bits and pieces on, I thought to myself, well, it’s going away from what we originally wanted, and, er…”
[Lundberg cuts in shares his thoughts. Bower continues, talking directly to Lundberg…]
“But at the same time, I admire what you’ve done over the years. I mean, ours wasn’t a patch on what you’ve created … But the wonderful patterns that you’ve created, I mean, I’ve admired them. You’re my hero. You say I’m your hero, but I mean, you’re my hero, but I mean, I’ve never seen patterns like it. Ours – actually, ours were quite crude, really, but, erm, there it is, that was the start of it all.”
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[Picking up Lundberg’s remarks on damaging farmers’ crops] “It was the general public going in to look at it that made the [most] damage. Treading on it.”
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[Lundberg has been speaking about his serious intent when making circles. Bower speaks to him] “So here’s the complete difference between us and you, you see, isn’t it? We went out [circle making] for the laugh … but I admire you for what you’re doing now. I didn’t care much for [it] when you first started it, because it was encroaching on our [hoax] a little bit. But since then, I’ve got to admire you completely.”
Interviewer: “But that’s the point I’m getting at, Doug, is, he wasn’t the first one to encroach on it, and I want…”
“No, but I didn’t know. I didn’t know who the hoaxers were, never met them in my life, didn’t even know their names or anything. We knew that there was somebody copying us. Who they were, we don’t know. We saw it in the paper. There was pictures of their patterns and everything, we knew they were up around this way [presumably, they are being filmed in Hampshire] but who they were, I don’t know to this day.”
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Interviewer: What’s your best story about something that’s out of the ordinary, you couldn’t explain, that happened to you…
“[Laughs] What, the night I was knocked unconscious? That was near Winchester one night. Dave and I were up on the hill, and, erm, we were doing a pattern. We got about half way through it, then suddenly I was hit on the head, and I was [knocked] out. The next thing I know, Dave was leaning over me, and I’d sort of come-to then, and I thought a farmer had thrown a stone at me. ’Cos you’re always conscious of this sort of thing happening, you see.
“And he says, ‘Whatever’s the matter?’ I says, ‘I just had a blow on the head,’ and I said, ‘The blood’s all running down the back of my head, which, I thought it was. It was dark, you see, almost dark, anyway. We had no torches. He said, ‘I think we’d better get back to the-’ I says, ‘We’re not, we’ve got to finish this off,’ I says, ‘We can’t leave it half-done.’ That’s how keen I was, you see.
“So, anyway, I came-to alright afterwards and we had about three quarters of a mile to walk back to the car, to the car park, and, erm, he couldn’t see what it was, but I knew it was all trickling down the back of my head and my neck, and, erm… Anyway, we eventually got back to the car park and I said, ‘Well, once we switch the headlights of the car on, we can see what it is.’
“Well, when we did that, you’d never see such a mess. My head, what I thought was blood, was all green chemical from a jumbo-jet’s toilet. And what had hit me was the toilet [waste] from the plane, and as it was quite a warm night, it must have started off as an ice block, but by the time it reached me it was just a soft lump, just [hard] enough to knock me out. [Speaks to the cameraman] It’s alright for you laughing over there, the cameraman! [Resumes] But erm, the … what was actually in it, from the toilet, was all in my hair. It was a horrible mess. And, of course, I had no means of getting rid of it, nothing to wash with, and of course, when I got back to Southampton, I had to shout to [Bower’s wife] Ilene through the letter box, I says, ‘Now, don’t be scared when you open the door,’ I said, ‘because my head’s in a bit of a mess,’ and I had to explain to her, briefly, just more-or-less what had happened, you see.
“And, of course, after that episode, all the so-called experts – here we go again, with the so-called experts – they were getting in touch with Heathrow [Airport], asking them if it was the usual thing for, erm, chemical residue to come out of a plane. [The answer was] ‘Ooo, no, no, nothing like that. No, it’s all stored away.’ But, I mean, since then we’ve seen in the newspapers [reports] of lumps of ice falling off of planes, going through the roofs of cottages, and there was a car at Eastleigh just near Southampton, that was, er, punctured through with a lump of ice. So, there it was.
“But, what amazes me is the fact that, there’s me, a little tiny dot down in all these thousands and millions of acres of fields, and that’s dropping off that plane, but it had to hit me on the head, didn’t it!?”
===============
[Speaking to Lundberg again] “As I said to you just now, it pleases me to think that so many people have had enjoyment out of it. We’ve had enjoyment making them, and thousands and thousands of people, I mean, the amount – there’s about 50 books [have] been written on it, I think, up till now, and, erm, all the television programmes and everything else, I mean, er, I’ve left my mark. That’s one thing about it. Not only in the fields, but, er, world-wide as well … I’ve always been that sort of person … [Lundberg cuts in to eulogise about Bower, comparing him to Picasso!].”
Bower is seated next to John Lundberg who also speaks, but I have not transcribed Lundberg’s comments. Edits are indicated by horizontal lines between the paragraphs. We only get some very short quotes, but they are not generally included in the longer piece, so we detail them first. All dialogue is Bower’s unless stated:
“There were no circles anywhere in existence before 1978 [Lundberg, incidentally, does not react to this – he’s looking at the ground, motionless] when we put the first one down.”
===============
“We wanted them [onlookers] to think a UFO had landed in the night.”
===============
“We used to sign them in the end, look, D&D: Doug and Dave [shows a photograph of his ‘insectogram’ formation from September 1991, which entrapped Pat Delgado, and points to the ‘signature’].”
===============
On-screen we see Bower with his stomper board. “That’s the one we started with, 1978, that stick.”
===============
“Unfortunately, we did this for two years without any notice being taken of it at all. It wasn’t only the fun we got out of making them, it was the fun that we got of winding people up.”
===============
“Now, the first hoaxing started, from other groups… [Lundberg laughs and takes over the conversation. Suggests he’s taken Bower’s limelight, and Bower also laughs], Well, we had the limelight, I know, but, er, Dave got despondent [over copycat hoaxing], he says, ‘no, it’s no good us carrying on, he says, there’s other people doing them’. I says, ‘You carry on!’ [hoaxing with me], because, I was so obsessed with it all, we just had to carry on.”
===============
Voiceover leads us to the 1991 confession…
“The Today newspaper was the paper that I took [read] at that time. We rang up there, and erm, I said, ‘What’s the story of the crop circle phenomenon worth?’.”
Second sequence: Lengthy interview, included as one of the ‘extra’ bonus items.
This is a much longer piece of film with Bower talking at length. Again, I have not transcribed Lundberg’s comments, or detailed occasional brief exchanges between the two, but Bower’s statements below are often separated by remarks from Lundberg, and were not filmed in a continuous, uninterrupted flow. Edits are indicated by horizontal lines between the paragraphs.
==============
“Well, I remember one evening, Dave and I went out to look at the circle. This was at, erm, Warminster. To look at a circle that we’d done a couple of nights before. And, erm, when we got to the viewing place, to have a look at it, lo and behold, there was another circle by the side of ours. Of course, Dave got very despondent then. He says, ‘it’s no good carrying on, he says, there’s other people doing them.’ That was the first hint that we had, that there was other people doing them.”
===============
“But the other thing that surprises me is the effect that it’s had on people. Erm, I mean, it all started out over a pint of beer and a bit of a laugh. That’s all it was! That was all we did it [for] for 14 years, just for a laugh. And, erm, this is what’s become of it. It’s got world-wide.
“The other thing I’d like to str[ess], I’ve been stressing this point [in] every interview that I’ve done. The reason that there are circles in other parts of the world is because we used to meet these people from different parts of the world, up near Winchester, looking at what we’d done. And they would turn round to me, the men from Germany, America, Canada, France, all those people would say to us, ‘When we get home from this holiday, we’re gonna have a go at this.’ And that’s why you’ve got them in all different parts of the world.
[At this point Bower is speaking clearly, firmly, with conviction. Lundberg does not react in any way] “There were no circles anywhere in existence before 1978, when we put the first one down. There’s archaeological aerial photographs [which have] been examined, thousands of them, prior to, er, 1978, and not one single circle has ever been spotted from the air.”
===============
“To be quite honest with you, I thought to myself, once we’d start putting the corridors in, and the other bits and pieces [ie, making pictograms with elaborate features], I didn’t like that. We’re going away from what we originally started. We [originally] wanted people to believe – flying saucers are circular, our circles were circular – and all we wanted them to believe [was] that something landed during the night, and that was that. But once we started [to] put all these bits and pieces on, I thought to myself, well, it’s going away from what we originally wanted, and, er…”
[Lundberg cuts in shares his thoughts. Bower continues, talking directly to Lundberg…]
“But at the same time, I admire what you’ve done over the years. I mean, ours wasn’t a patch on what you’ve created … But the wonderful patterns that you’ve created, I mean, I’ve admired them. You’re my hero. You say I’m your hero, but I mean, you’re my hero, but I mean, I’ve never seen patterns like it. Ours – actually, ours were quite crude, really, but, erm, there it is, that was the start of it all.”
===============
[Picking up Lundberg’s remarks on damaging farmers’ crops] “It was the general public going in to look at it that made the [most] damage. Treading on it.”
===============
[Lundberg has been speaking about his serious intent when making circles. Bower speaks to him] “So here’s the complete difference between us and you, you see, isn’t it? We went out [circle making] for the laugh … but I admire you for what you’re doing now. I didn’t care much for [it] when you first started it, because it was encroaching on our [hoax] a little bit. But since then, I’ve got to admire you completely.”
Interviewer: “But that’s the point I’m getting at, Doug, is, he wasn’t the first one to encroach on it, and I want…”
“No, but I didn’t know. I didn’t know who the hoaxers were, never met them in my life, didn’t even know their names or anything. We knew that there was somebody copying us. Who they were, we don’t know. We saw it in the paper. There was pictures of their patterns and everything, we knew they were up around this way [presumably, they are being filmed in Hampshire] but who they were, I don’t know to this day.”
===============
Interviewer: What’s your best story about something that’s out of the ordinary, you couldn’t explain, that happened to you…
“[Laughs] What, the night I was knocked unconscious? That was near Winchester one night. Dave and I were up on the hill, and, erm, we were doing a pattern. We got about half way through it, then suddenly I was hit on the head, and I was [knocked] out. The next thing I know, Dave was leaning over me, and I’d sort of come-to then, and I thought a farmer had thrown a stone at me. ’Cos you’re always conscious of this sort of thing happening, you see.
“And he says, ‘Whatever’s the matter?’ I says, ‘I just had a blow on the head,’ and I said, ‘The blood’s all running down the back of my head, which, I thought it was. It was dark, you see, almost dark, anyway. We had no torches. He said, ‘I think we’d better get back to the-’ I says, ‘We’re not, we’ve got to finish this off,’ I says, ‘We can’t leave it half-done.’ That’s how keen I was, you see.
“So, anyway, I came-to alright afterwards and we had about three quarters of a mile to walk back to the car, to the car park, and, erm, he couldn’t see what it was, but I knew it was all trickling down the back of my head and my neck, and, erm… Anyway, we eventually got back to the car park and I said, ‘Well, once we switch the headlights of the car on, we can see what it is.’
“Well, when we did that, you’d never see such a mess. My head, what I thought was blood, was all green chemical from a jumbo-jet’s toilet. And what had hit me was the toilet [waste] from the plane, and as it was quite a warm night, it must have started off as an ice block, but by the time it reached me it was just a soft lump, just [hard] enough to knock me out. [Speaks to the cameraman] It’s alright for you laughing over there, the cameraman! [Resumes] But erm, the … what was actually in it, from the toilet, was all in my hair. It was a horrible mess. And, of course, I had no means of getting rid of it, nothing to wash with, and of course, when I got back to Southampton, I had to shout to [Bower’s wife] Ilene through the letter box, I says, ‘Now, don’t be scared when you open the door,’ I said, ‘because my head’s in a bit of a mess,’ and I had to explain to her, briefly, just more-or-less what had happened, you see.
“And, of course, after that episode, all the so-called experts – here we go again, with the so-called experts – they were getting in touch with Heathrow [Airport], asking them if it was the usual thing for, erm, chemical residue to come out of a plane. [The answer was] ‘Ooo, no, no, nothing like that. No, it’s all stored away.’ But, I mean, since then we’ve seen in the newspapers [reports] of lumps of ice falling off of planes, going through the roofs of cottages, and there was a car at Eastleigh just near Southampton, that was, er, punctured through with a lump of ice. So, there it was.
“But, what amazes me is the fact that, there’s me, a little tiny dot down in all these thousands and millions of acres of fields, and that’s dropping off that plane, but it had to hit me on the head, didn’t it!?”
===============
[Speaking to Lundberg again] “As I said to you just now, it pleases me to think that so many people have had enjoyment out of it. We’ve had enjoyment making them, and thousands and thousands of people, I mean, the amount – there’s about 50 books [have] been written on it, I think, up till now, and, erm, all the television programmes and everything else, I mean, er, I’ve left my mark. That’s one thing about it. Not only in the fields, but, er, world-wide as well … I’ve always been that sort of person … [Lundberg cuts in to eulogise about Bower, comparing him to Picasso!].”